Giovanna
Today we're gonna be looking at virtual communities on TikTok.

Alyssa
Yeah, so I guess we'll start opening up about some of the articles we read about virtual communities. I focused on the Malik and Hadar article that was focusing on K-Pop, and Twitter as a community of practice. A community of practice, I guess, kind of like all virtual communities are a community of practice in a way.

Um, they're kind of formed out of necessity and exist everywhere in the world. Um, they're naturally formed, you know, due to the needs of a group of people. They develop over time and they're created and destroyed. Um, but the essential characteristics of a community of practice is a shared interest, you know, activities that members engage in as a community and creation and maintenance of interpersonal relationships.

So I guess the question kind of is, is if like a virtual community is a community of practice in and of itself.

Giovanna
Yeah. So my paper had actually, um, talked about much about that. I was doing the Ito et al. paper. That was from the "What is Digital Learning? Digital Literacy." Um, and my paper had introduced connected learning as like a framework that can integrate young people's interests as well as like opportunities, um, that being academic or career opportunities that are across a formal or an informal setting.

So the informal setting being TikTok. We had looked at, so a few of the key elements that this paper had dived into was the interest-driven learning, peer support, and linking this learning online to real world outcomes. So my paper had delved into that, and we can go into Kahmari’s paper.

Kahmari
So my paper was more about AI and social media, but in a more negative light.

It was an interview with Patel and a Harvard professor. Essentially during the interview, the professor kind of just laid out his issues with social media and AI and he kind of called it a free speech crisis. And he basically touched on different reasons why our First Amendment, although we are obligated to free speech and be able to say what we want, he focused on how negative it is and how it kind of like doesn't work in its intended use.

Like he touched on a lot of things like how YouTube or TikTok or even AI is creating like a misinformation or like toxic epidemic where a lot of the things we say on the internet or we hear on the internet blatantly aren't true and can even be very harmful to certain communities or to certain ways of thinking.

But because of free speech and because of the First Amendment, there really isn't anything we could do about it. And if you try to do anything about it, people would just say that you're infringing on the First Amendment. So that kind of just goes back into why he calls it a crisis for the internet.

Alyssa
I think that's a really interesting point.

I saw a video online recently where someone had like a bunch of phones set up where basically it had like bots generated that was just going onto social media and like leaving comments. And it was basically this AI-generated technology where they could just set it up and have these bots go online and say whatever they want.

Which is like interesting to me 'cause I'm like, why would you wanna do that? But it's interesting on how that can impact virtual communities. I know in my article, my article was like, you know, focusing on Twitter, but I realized that like the community on Twitter is similar in a lot of ways to TikTok.

In the article, it was saying that K-Pop fans find their online bonds to be stronger than offline, mostly because it's easier to find people with shared interests online and also out of fear of being judged for their interests by people in the real world. Also, it's easier to find people with common interests online.

You know, people are, they join specific groups online or also you can see what they repost, or it's usually even like in their bio, what their interests are. Um, and so I think what's interesting is how AI can possibly harm this community online.

Giovanna
Yeah, I completely agree. My article had touched on these niche TikTok communities.

This connected learning framework emphasizes like an interest-powered engagement. So when you're interested in something, then you're gonna start seeing more things on your For You page, you know, it's more catered towards you. Um, so on TikTok, these influencers and the micro-creators thrive on these niche communities.

A few of them being either BookTok, SkincareTok, EducationTok, CleanTok. I know that Kahmari had mentioned that. So TikTok basically just functions as like a playground for this interest-based learning, and it makes it easier for creators to share tutorials, life advice or creativity hacks that cater towards your interests.

Alyssa
Yeah, I think the way—oh, sorry, Kahmari, you can go.

Kahmari
Oh, my article, speaking of like how you talked about your algorithm kind of showing you what you're interested in. My article did actually speak on the algorithms that are created for us and how they are negative. And I think that, you know, with these algorithms, sometimes we get caught in like an echo chamber.

Yeah. And we only see what we want. Totally. Or we only hear what we want to hear. And that also is a big reason for the spread of a lot of misinformation. Especially when you're somebody who wants to believe something. Like if you see something and you wanna believe it, even if you feel like it may not be true, because in your head that's what you want to believe, you may end up even spreading that or agreeing with it in some kind of way. So as much as our algorithms do help us see what we are interested in, they are also like a part of the main problem at hand.

Alyssa
Yeah, and I think that's why TikTok is so unique when it comes to virtual communities because it's really—out of all the social media platforms, I feel like it has the most catered algorithm to your interests, which both of you bring up points of like the positive and negative in that. Like there's a positive of how it brings you to people with shared interests and maybe brings you to a group of like-minded individuals. But then again, it can be negative with the echo chamber of only surrounding yourself with like-minded individuals.

Giovanna
Yeah, I completely agree. I think that just makes it—the way that we're learning our digital literacy as we're getting older and stuff—I think that it could be extremely beneficial for everyone to see both sides of the story. So I can totally see where an algorithm will stick you in a box and you don't see anything else. But being, you know, a digitally literate student, it's in your best interest to take a look at both sides. Go searching for other opinions that you probably wouldn't see on your For You page or that's catered to you just to be more well-rounded.

Alyssa
Yeah. I've even seen, like on TikTok, sometimes I'll get a TikTok that doesn't really align with me or my interests or even politically, and I'll see people in the comments, they'll be like, “Oh, I ended up on the wrong side of TikTok.” And so you can see how blatant it is. Totally. It really is like divides on TikTok and everyone is in their own subgroups.

Kahmari
Yeah. Which, you know, like we previously stated, that can be a good or bad thing depending on what the topic at hand is. I do think TikTok is probably the one social media where I feel like being in your own community isn't always a bad thing.

Giovanna
Mm-hmm.

Kahmari
I think even like when I mentioned CleanTok, I think CleanTok is a very powerful community on TikTok, and I think it's a very inspiring community. A lot of people unfortunately don't like to clean, but because they see certain things on TikTok—whether it be an easier, more efficient way to clean or some kind of new gadget, or simply just seeing the videos in general—it motivates them to get up and try something new. And it's, like I said, it's inspiring, you know, and it changed a lot of people's lives, to be honest.

Alyssa
Yeah. I really like watching like the hoarding shows on Netflix. I think those are really entertaining. I didn’t even realize that CleanTok is a whole community. I see sometimes like for entertainment purposes people reorganizing stuff, but also I think sometimes there’s a shock factor with it too. Like I see people combining cleaning chemicals and it’s like, oh my God, like why are you doing that? I didn’t even realize that there was a whole community and not just like an entertainment thing.

Giovanna
Yeah. Like you said, when it's like rage bait, when people are posting things that they know that they're gonna get a lot of interaction from, whether that be good or bad.

So that kind of brings it into my influencer topic because I think a lot of influencers promote things not even knowing, A) what they're promoting. They don't use it, and they just know that if their face is behind it, you're gonna buy it. And the regular consumer that needs, needs, needs the new thing is gonna go out and buy that, and it's going to just create more money for them.

So I do think that that's another thing that everyone has to be careful of—like learning the source and seeing where it's coming from. Especially if you're being influenced by someone on TikTok.

Kahmari
Yeah, I agree. I don't know if you guys have ever seen it on TikTok, but a lot of times, like influencers will say, “Oh, fill out the link in my bio for $500 in cash.”

Alyssa
Yeah.

Kahmari
A survey that just wants your information and like, you're not gonna get any money. But the whole point is just like these random people to just phish your information and people fall for it all the time. But it really just comes down to not trusting these influencers a hundred percent. Like we should all realize at the end of the day, yeah, you might like them or their content, but they're here for money. And if these people are paying them to promote something, they're gonna do it regardless if it's harmful to you or not.

Giovanna
Totally. I also feel like everyone on TikTok now is like a life coach. I don't know if you guys have ever seen Ashton Hall, but that's like the number one TikTok that I keep thinking about. Everyone's like saying, “Do this for money, do this and your life is gonna be amazing, do this for your mental health.” And it's extremely important to look at the source when that's all being said to you, because a lot of these people that are promoting healthy lifestyles or just better mental health—things like that—a lot of these people are doing so for the money.

So it's important to realize, because I know a lot of people on TikTok do try to be a life coach.

Alyssa
Yeah, and it's interesting. I feel like at least I've noticed on TikTok with these influencers, it almost seems that people idolize them in a way and form a community around this person. Which I found—like when I was reading the article about K-Pop Twitter—they were talking about how the community is formed around idolizing these celebrities. And it's almost like these influencers on TikTok become celebrities in a way.

Um, and so it's interesting how TikTok is unique in the fact that people are building a community when their shared interest is this influencer. I mean, it's kind of—I don't know—it’s a little bit strange, I feel like.

Kahmari
Yeah, I definitely agree with that for sure. I think that just blindly following people on TikTok, especially these life coaches, is in general just very insane. Because what works for one person may not work for you, you know?

So I feel like everybody kind of needs to just stay in their own lane and there's nothing wrong with taking advice, but yeah, following somebody else's journey one-to-one is kind of just a quick way to failure. You need to do what's best for you because not everybody's life is the same.

Alyssa
Yeah. It's crazy 'cause these influencers—they'll get paid to sponsor things and people just—they're paid to say, “Oh, this is a good product,” and people will buy that product just because this person that they like said to buy the product, even though they probably don't even use the product themselves.

Giovanna
Yeah. Sorry, Kahmari, what were you saying?

Kahmari
No, I was saying it's just consumerism, to be honest.

Giovanna
Yes. On the positive side, I do think that TikTok can be used as a learning tool, because it is our generation. We have a very lessened attention span. So to get information in a 15 to 30 second video, it's like a hybrid learning environment.

So like I could learn cooking, I could learn algebra. I've honestly studied for chemistry on TikTok, like doing practice problems and stuff like that. So I do think it's a great tool for learning. And the fact that you can connect with anyone in the world is pretty cool, because I feel like I wouldn't know a lot of things—and I'm not saying that it's my main source of information—but I do find out a lot of things that are going on in the world from TikTok.

Alyssa
No, I totally agree. I think some people are ashamed to say that they learn on TikTok, but it really—it is educational.

I was focusing for my virtual community for this podcast on visual artists in New York City. I was interested in New York City in general because they have a strong art scene in person. So I figured that on TikTok there would be a strong art community.

And I found that a lot of people not only share their life as an artist in New York City, but there is a whole educational aspect to that community as well. Like people will post tutorials on certain techniques. And I've looked on TikTok—you know, I’m an art education major—and so I've looked, you know, I was learning how to do cyanotype printing recently.

And I was looking on TikTok for techniques with that. And so it really is not only a virtual community for interests, but also for learning, which I think is really unique.

Kahmari
100% agree. I've used TikTok myself to learn new things. Usually like if I'm hungry and I don't know what to eat, I'll try to find someone on TikTok or—

If I'm going on vacation, like I know where to stay because of TikTok, like nice places to stay, or nice excursions or even getting things cheaper. Like TikTok always just has an outlook on something. Like whatever you need. It's kind of like the new Reddit. You know before, where you had a question, Reddit always had the answer.

Now it's like you can search anything up on TikTok and somebody somewhere experienced that same issue or had that same question and you could get your answer.

Giovanna
I also—go ahead, sorry.

Kahmari
You're good.

Giovanna
I think it's also really cool 'cause it gives everyone a fair playing ground. Because not everyone has the same access to resources, access to getting their voice out there.

So I think having social media like that—you know, anyone has the ability to blow up on TikTok—so it gives everyone a voice and I think we all like it 'cause it makes everyone kind of feel included. We are all part of one big community.

Alyssa
Yeah. And you know, even like some—I mean, influencers I feel like is a really general term. I feel like there’s influencers who—because when I think of influencers, I think of the people who are like posting fashion or stuff like that—but it really can be anything.

Like I was just thinking about the—I don’t know if you’ve seen the woman on TikTok, I don’t know her name—but she posts like dollar store meals.

Alyssa
Like I was just thinking about the—I don’t know if you’ve seen the woman on TikTok, I don’t know her name—but she posts like dollar store meals.

Yeah, and like she, I mean, she's an influencer if you think about it. And she's not what you would typically think of as an influencer, but she's really helpful in building a community of people who perhaps are struggling and need to know, you know, maybe how to feed their family. And she's showing them like, “Hey, here are things you can get from the Dollar Tree, and these are the meals that I made with those items.”

Giovanna
Yeah, I completely agree. It's like a very general term, but I feel like it's anyone that's passing on information to a larger crowd, whether that be fashion, beauty, cooking, cleaning, like anything like that. It's anyone that's posting videos to not only promote themselves, but also to share information with a larger group.

Alyssa
Yeah. And I think that goes back to sharing shared interests and showing how, like—I would say with influencers—they are promoting communities of practice in a way. I know in what I was talking about with my community I was focusing on, on visual artists, a lot of artists would post their artwork or like how they were selling it or talk about their gallery shows, and a lot of people were bonding over that in a way.

But I also noticed that there was a lot more engagement in a sense of community in artists who had a larger following. So I was kind of looking into the fact, you know, if you don't have a large amount of followers, do you still have that same sense of community?

Giovanna
I don't think so because—I mean, this is gonna sound superficial to say—but if I do see a video on TikTok that doesn't have as many likes or doesn't have as many engagements, I'm less likely to react with that video.

Yeah, I feel like when I see Alex Earl's videos on TikTok, there's billions of comments, and it's just easier to engage because I feel like everyone is commenting on those videos. It's so easy just to comment back, and like, a lot of the times you do have the same thoughts. I've thought something in my head and I open up the comments and it's right there. So I think something like that—if you do have a lesser following—I think that you are at a slight disadvantage because I don't think people see you as credible.

Kahmari
Mm-hmm. That is very true. Yeah, like the people believe that if you have a big follower count or the tweet or the video has a bunch of likes, that it's automatically true.

Which of course isn't the case, especially in certain cases where like, you know, certain things could be blatant propaganda. Like, of course that would have more likes if it's more in norm with what people think.

Alyssa
Because I would definitely say that I'm like a quiet observer on TikTok. Like I love—I'm always on TikTok. But I don't post myself, so I find I do get some sort of a sense of community from TikTok just from seeing things that are relatable.

And like even sometimes I'll search on TikTok to find people who are maybe going through the same thing as me. Like I remember last year—this is really random—but I was really stressed about getting my wisdom teeth out. And so I would like scour TikTok for other people who were posting about getting their wisdom teeth out.

And I did—it did make me feel better just seeing people who went through the same thing that I did.

Giovanna
Similar to that—actually last night—I did not know that my bunny was pregnant.

Oh my gosh. And yeah, so I had eight baby bunnies last night. So I had no idea. So in a scramble, I literally—first I researched online and then I went right to TikTok to see what other people were doing. And I saw this type of wooden box that I had to get them, so I literally just went out, got them a wooden box.

So that's a way that you could see how if other people have gone through the same situation, what you should do. You know, take some of the positives and see how they would respond. That's literally an example that I used today.

Alyssa
Yeah, I think it's great how people will post informational TikToks just to help other people.

And the virtual community I was focusing on with artists, a lot of them were bonding over common struggles that are unique to being an artist living in New York City, like transporting art for delivery without a car. And a lot of people would just comment how they transport their art for selling or to gallery shows.

And so it's interesting how in all these niche communities, there's such a need to help people—and they're not getting paid to help people—they're just, it's just a community where it's like, “Hey, I relate to that. I've gone through the same thing. Here's a solution that I found.”

Giovanna
On the contrary, it also could be negative.

Because the same thing—people could be spreading that disinformation because they know that you're desperate, you're looking for information. And when you see a video on TikTok that aligns with what you are thinking, it could be easy to fall down that rabbit hole. Same thing, then your algorithm gets changed and you only start seeing that one topic.

So that's also—it could be very positive or very negative.

Alyssa
Yeah. I guess, you know, with TikTok there is a sense of like honor system and trusting people that they're giving you reliable information. That kind of reminds me of how one or two modules ago we were talking about Wikipedia and people putting misinformation out there just to put misinformation out there.

Kahmari
Yeah, I agree. You know, just like you said, a lot of people do put misinformation out there, but honestly it is just—when it comes to social media, it doesn't matter what happens or what way the world goes—misinformation will always be a thing.

Like even just think of something that's really old—like the Salem Witch Trials, right? Majority of people who died were not witches. None of them were witches. Witches aren't real, you know? So like the point is that, you know, misinformation will always run rampant in whatever form the world is in. It doesn't matter. It's just—humans are gonna lie. It's just what we do.

Giovanna
Yeah. I know that that was a popular question during the election.

Do you guys think that we're better off with TikTok or would you guys like to see it banned?

Kahmari
I think—

Giovanna
Go ahead, Kahmari.

Kahmari
Yeah, sorry to cut you off, but I think we're better off with TikTok as an avid TikTok enjoyer.

Alyssa
Yeah, I just think—

Kahmari
I just think there's so much good that comes from TikTok. I feel like it severely outweighs the bad. Like yes, there might be misinformation or whatever you want to say about the app, but like I said, misinformation’s everywhere. Getting rid of TikTok isn't gonna change that, like at all. Especially when our major news app outlets are the ones spreading misinformation.

Alyssa
Yeah. When TikTok was banned for like that one day—I mean this is embarrassing to say—but I was like distraught.

Kahmari
I didn’t know what to do with myself. Like I kept reopening the app, just muscle memory. And I was like, oh wait, you can't use it.

Alyssa
Because there are so many niche communities within TikTok. But I would say that TikTok itself is like a community. And I felt like—I felt like I lost a friend.

Kahmari
Remember the last day of TikTok where everybody was compiling all the trends from over the years? Like it was just so sad, you know?

Alyssa
Yeah. I feel like I have so many memories just on TikTok, even just from being someone who observes TikTok. There are people that I've followed for years.

There's this one girl that I followed on TikTok who—like—she was going through cancer, this had to be years ago. And she's beat cancer now, but I've followed her through this whole thing. And I was like, oh my gosh. Before TikTok gets shut down, I have to go through all these people that I follow and find another social media app to follow them on, because I don't want to lose this person, even though I don't know them.

Giovanna
Yeah, I completely agree. It makes it so where we can literally communicate with the entire world from our bedrooms. Something like that our parents did not have to grow up with. It’s something new that I feel like we're constantly adapting to.

And I feel like if you were to ban it—it just creates, I've said this a thousand times—it just creates a bigger need for a way to sneak around it. A new app would pop up. And I think that having all these resources at your disposal does make you a more educated person, because if you realize that TikTok can be biased and what you're looking at is only catered towards you, then it's gonna force you to start looking at other communities and different opinions.

So I think as long as everyone just uses it correctly and looks at both sides of the story—which is a very big ask—but I think as literate students, I think that's extremely beneficial to our education because you could see so many different POVs and different information that you wouldn't normally see in the news.

Kahmari
Agree.

Alyssa
Yeah. So I think in conclusion, I think definitely TikTok is an important community. I think it's a community in and of itself as a whole. But not only is TikTok a community as a whole, there are so many individual and unique communities within TikTok.

Kahmari
Agree. Totally agree. 100 percent.

Alyssa
And so that is our podcast on virtual communities. Thank you for joining us.

Kahmari
Thank you.

Giovanna
Thank you.